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Thriving in Cloud-Based Real Estate with Courtney Twist: From Independent Brokerage to eXp Realty Success

• Courtney Twiss • Episode 30

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Ever wondered how shifting from a traditional brick-and-mortar real estate brokerage to a cloud-based model can revolutionize your career? Join us on our milestone 30th episode of the Now Podcast as we sit down with Courtney Twiss, who shares her transformative journey from running her own independent brokerage to thriving at eXp Realty. Amidst the backdrop of busy lives filled with travel and parenting, we reflect on the commitment it takes to produce a podcast every week and the enriching conversations it brings.

Courtney opens up about the hurdles of shrinking margins and the high costs of maintaining physical offices, and how seeking mentorship and setting aside her ego led to her embracing a more sustainable model with eXp Realty. Discover the surprising strengths of eXp’s culture, the financial freedom it offers, and how it aligns better with professional and personal goals. This episode is packed with real-life success stories and debunks common misconceptions about eXp Realty. Whether you're an independent broker, a team lead, or a top producer, Courtney's insights provide a fresh perspective on the opportunities within this innovative real estate model.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the now podcast making moves in real estate. Oh my gosh, I think we need to redo that. Wait, okay, you sound like you're like on a late night radio show.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you're a little. Chris Voss, late night DJ. What you didn't know.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Now Podcast. This is actually episode 30. Yeah, like a bell, 30 weeks in a row. Yeah, I have not missed a week and I have an agent that actually commented on how we should be proud of ourselves for being so consistent. So jaw ball down High five and that's with like traveling and vacations and kids and stuff Life. Anyways, it's my highlight every week. I love doing the pod, I know.

Speaker 1:

Do and stuff, life. Anyways, congrats to us. It's my highlight every week. I love doing the pod. I know, do you, I do. I just want to get back to where we can have a cocktail with it. We should have one, I know, but we got to drive. It's like always something that I feel like we've been having to be responsible.

Speaker 2:

We have to be responsible.

Speaker 1:

But the kids are back in school. Once we get past this fair, I feel like our Friday window is going to be back to fun Fridays. Do you know what I?

Speaker 2:

mean and fun Mondays and Wednesdays Pretty much every day could be a fun day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's like just the, I think, the summer and the stuff. My forecast is that, come two weeks from today, we will be back on track with cocktails in hand with our guests.

Speaker 2:

Okay so that being said, we need to learn how to make good martinis Espresso. I know I don't know how to make it.

Speaker 1:

I just want to drink it. I know I still feel like if I had DoorDash next door, that would be awesome. Maybe Charles Street Work on that. Anyways, at any rate, today we decided to spend the time chatting about independent brokerages. And who better to speak on independent brokerages than Courtney Twist? Because she started one, I'm going to say, 12 years ago.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, almost 12 years ago yeah exactly actually, so 12 years ago, and then I came on like 10 years ago, so yeah, Well, we have a lot of questions or a lot of people come up to us and say why you had your own gig going on. You built this big, this brand. You have multiple locations. Why on earth did you join eXp? I mean, I hear it all the time. Do you People ask you? I imagine too For sure, yeah, 100%. Well, we'll just discuss it?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because I think people that know Courtney, she just worked so hard to accomplish that. Like, how many people can say you built a brokerage, three offices, I mean? Over 40 agents, or at least a staff, I would say, and staff, admin and marketing and all the things, and then you just decide to pivot. I mean, we've talked about it on, like your video, but not in this setting. So we've got real estate agents, potentially some independent brokers. What triggered your mind to be open to anything other than what you were doing?

Speaker 2:

Well, for quite a while now, I had seen that our industry was changing. I could see the direction it was going. This whole NAR settlement is just part of it, and I just think after being in real estate and lending for over 20 years, I know that change is inevitable, whether you like it or not. That's the one thing that you don't control. Change happens, so you might as well get ahead of it. It's actually the one thing.

Speaker 1:

You do know that's going to happen.

Speaker 2:

I guess. So One thing, you know, that's going to happen is change right.

Speaker 2:

You can't avoid it, no matter whether you want it or not. So my philosophy I think for some of the people that know me is to be proactive, to get ahead of the curve, rather than to react. And I could see for quite a while now the beauty of the model for cloud-based brokerages and for many years you and I have been trying to recruit agents and recruit against that model, and it's a tough one to compete with because it's so strong for multiple reasons. So even knowing that, I realized well, I'm going to have to make some changes in the brokerage one way or another. Margins are shrinking. People think often it's misleading when you have a brokerage that maybe you're rolling in the big bucks, but in reality there's a lot of costs that come out of running a brokerage. If you're going to provide your agents with the tools that they really really need to thrive, a strong CRM lead generation websites really really need to thrive. A strong CRM lead generation websites, skyslow, all those tools that we were paying for it really does shrink your market. Your time, your time, that's true, which is why you have to be so thoughtful on who you bring on, or how many of your balance of your seasons agent versus your new agents and do you layer in managers, which is what I had done with managers in different locations. So there's a lot that goes into it and I realized that I was on a bit of a treadmill and I wanted to get off of that treadmill.

Speaker 2:

I had known for a while that the direction I wanted to take my career was not necessarily to stay in production, individual production, indefinitely. I've been, like I said, doing this 20 years and I wanted to grow my career in a different way. I wanted to still grow professionally. I enjoy leading leaders, I enjoy helping others grow their businesses and their brands and I felt like if I were going to have the profit that I want, I would either have to jump back in full steam ahead on the production side to help cover all the costs for myself, for my agents, and or really switch up my model.

Speaker 2:

Because growing brick and mortar office brick and mortar office like I had thought when I did my 10 year vision planning, my three year vision planning, I was imagining just taking over the Valley, central Valley, right Of California, and going out of state and just having all these offices everywhere and I quickly realized that is exhausting and that's really not the best way or the smartest way to scale. And eXp, you can scale, we can grow an organization, we can collaborate with top talent in any state and actually 25 countries, and I don't have to have my broker's license in all of those and I don't have to have a physical office. So it was kind of a bit of wow, I can grow. And it's a little bit with hitting like an easy button. It's not as labor intensive as what I was doing, so I would say that's part of it.

Speaker 1:

I think that there was there's so much to unpack just on on the journey that Courtney went on. Obviously, I was with her through that and I think you know, for most people it's not like you made the decision overnight. I mean, there were, like I would say, eight plus months, and I think one of the things I really commend you on doing is setting aside your ego, because I've met so many and talked to so many independent brokers and they're like building my own business and it's my own brand and I'm gonna like do this and that's great, but you were able to be like okay, that I've, I've done that. However, in order for my personal and professional life and the people that I'm leading your real estate agents I need to look at other options to stay ahead of of technology, of the market, and I think that is like just an emotional process that you went through right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I grieved Truly, I truly grieved and I think, like you said, it was probably over eight months. I met somebody that Don Yoakum. I was introduced to him through Vistage, my CEO group, my Vistage chair. I'd said, hey, is there someone I can talk to that I'm not competing with, not in my market? That's been at this a while. I would really like to pick their brain and just figure out what my next steps should be. And I wasn't thinking eXp whatsoever at that point whatsoever. I just knew that I wanted to make some changes because the market had slowed. Even with the market turning back around, I just realized I think I'm going the wrong direction. March is within. I'm going the wrong direction for my family and this is not sustainable.

Speaker 2:

So I connected with Don Yoakum and he mentored me for months for free. He's coached agents for a long time and now he only coaches those that are in his organization and he was wonderful. And I met Stephanie Peck and Randy Bird, brent Gove, all the people that are in our organization through him, and I got to see a little bit of that culture which I thought for sure would be non-existent in a cloud-based brokerage. And I realized that there's these little villages amongst eXp, that it's almost like having your own little small brokerages and your own family amongst the 90,000 agents and it was pretty. That part was actually really surprising on how strong the culture is, because I would never have dreamed that it would be like that, coming from an independent brokerage mindset in a boutique, coming from an independent brokerage mindset in a boutique, small office setting. So, anyway, dawn mentored me for months and months.

Speaker 2:

I did my due diligence, I researched other brokerages. I researched Real, because that's a big one, that's a competitor. The two pretty much go head to head in a lot of our markets. And it came down to the people of who do I want to align with Because you know we use the word partnership a lot in this model, because it really is like a partnership, whether it's on paper or not. These are your people, your proximity principle, people like who do you want to be like? And these folks are who I want to aspire to be and to learn from and to bring back and soak it in and bring it back to the people in my organization or that we're bringing on. So it was very, um, very rewarding, I guess, and just felt like, ah, this is great.

Speaker 1:

I think the biggest thing in my just watching the whole thing from from my perspective, is it's like you're at it for so long alone, or with a business partner or leadership team or whatever your bubble is, but by by shifting gears, it's like the world opened up and now you're not alone and you can still function at a cadence as an independent broker, essentially without the liability but all this support of like okay, let's talk about the NAR settlement, right? I remember thinking, looking at you when, um Leo Pereja went on and talked Friday you know the whole by Monday he was on and I remember looking at you going my God, we would have been like crisis mode getting together on the weekend. What do we need to do? How do we need to communicate it?

Speaker 2:

Well for sure. So literally two years ago, I think it was, I called my attorneys that I have and I said hey, there's this stuff going on in Missouri regarding commissions. I'm concerned it's going to start trickling down in other states. What do I need to do? What's my liability going to look like as an independent broker? And they had no idea how to guide me on that car legal. No idea at that point how to guide me. I thought this is going to come. This is coming.

Speaker 2:

I could see the writing on the wall and not necessarily all completely the way it played out but I knew it was something to try to get ahead of and to be concerned about and then fast forward. Here we are, all these changes that happened, and it wasn't, like you said, on us to figure out exactly what to do how do we write these contracts, which ones to be used and eXp was just, like I would say, one of the best that we saw out there. A lot of our states are actually using their contracts as models, and it was a breath of fresh air to just do our thing. Not miss a beat If someone in our organization doesn't know how to proceed with it, beat If someone in our organization doesn't know how to proceed with it.

Speaker 2:

That's shocking because there was so much training webinars. They're on it with the briar presentation immediately. It was amazing. The tools and we're sharing that with everyone that we know, whether you're with eXp or not, because why not? We all need to figure this out together and be stronger as an industry. So you're right, that was amazing.

Speaker 1:

So great, I mean, and to think about the resources that these folks and our senior leadership have to like contact the VA, you know, to just be able to have conversations that are so high level and then bring it down to us. It's like, oh my gosh, this is, this is like great and you were able to still keep your local branding right. I mean, that was like. Another super important component to this decision is like I don't want to like abandon what I've built right.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. If they, if I, had not been able to keep my Twist Realty branding, this wouldn't have moved forward. We have a strong brand, a lot of brand awareness, recognition on the market, so that would have been probably a game changer. So it was definitely a relief to know that from a local perspective, we can keep going, we keep serving our clients. We still, you know, I kept two out of three offices and the agents just chip on chip in a little bit on the printing and costs, and it's minimal and that's been working for us.

Speaker 2:

You know, I think part of it just is being okay with one letting your ego go and just saying, okay, we can still keep doing what we're doing. It doesn't always have to be difficult. There are ways to grow and not have it be the hard path every time. And I do feel like often, as independent broker, that was the direction I felt like we were going, because we were creating so much from scratch. But, that being said, it wasn't necessarily like oh, it's a breeze. We, we came over and everyone loved it, and that's not the, that's not true. We lost a lot of, we lost some of our team, and that's just the, the nature, that's just the reality, right, you're going to lose some and you're going to bring, and you're going to bring some on. So, for everyone that we have lost, we have brought on two more, many of whom are amazing, talented agents that we have great relationships with, and that's just part of the process. That was a little bit uncomfortable at first. Then we're now working through.

Speaker 2:

The other thing that some independent brokers or team leads might not be aware of is that there are financial incentives offered through exp because, again, if you go back to the margins, even though you have a lot of expenses, you're thinking, okay, well, I'm getting whatever the your split is with your team right 15, 20, 30, whatever those splits are and you're shrinking them down, depending on how you structure this, to a different, potentially smaller percentage right of each piece of the pie, with the goal being that you're going to grow an organization on a larger scale, and so, in turn, it ends up creating more revenue over the long run.

Speaker 2:

But for the short term, it could look like you're going to have a hard time financially to make this move. So eXp has come up with some great programs for whether it's the boost. They have one called the boost program. They have another one called thrive. That really helps independent brokers and team leaders transition over. It helps, with that, cover some of those costs in that first year or 18 months, depending on what program you end up doing and that was good to know because that's definitely helped me with this transition over and it's been a great feature to have. We're coming up on a year, we are I can't even believe that I know.

Speaker 1:

So here, like I said, we can almost do like a part two episode, because there's so much I keep saying that. But truly it's like you know, talking about your journey on making the decision, which encompassed the ego, exploring the people that you're now in partnership, so we're in partnership with and then the different incentive programs. You know, now you have all these global resources and you know you get through losing some folks through the journey and then on the other side, and then it's like, yay, now we can do what we've always wanted to do, which is like the podcast, right, Bringing more value. So now there's all these things that Courtney and I were dreaming of and I was trying to be like, yes, let's get you to be speaker, let's do this podcast. But we were kind of like stuck in the trenches, like a little bit like handcuffed right, Like to the the, the day to day running of having an independent brokerage Now now we've bought back our time.

Speaker 2:

If any of you read the book, where you know we have essentially eliminated 80% of the busy work that was taking up the bulk of our time and are focusing on that 20%. That only we can do the best, not to say that we're perfect at that, because we're still working. Oh, we're getting close, we're very much on, but a year in I would say that, or almost a year in that, we're getting that pretty well dialed, which is a breath of fresh air, because maybe 18 months ago I wouldn't have felt like that was possible.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I mean, and it really, I just know that it really, in my opinion, you were going through your own thing, but it also allowed everybody within your brokerage to make a choice on what they wanted for themselves. Like, this is what you're doing, these are the benefits, this is what you can now consider doing for yourself. I would love to have you join me on this journey and so, through that, while you lost some folks Right, you, I mean it's like I got licensed officially, carissa got licensed. We're like doing all these great things, meeting so many great people, I mean Traveling- to fun events.

Speaker 1:

We talked about this almost a year ago, how it changed our lives Genuinely, and I think that for the people that chose to go with you on this journey would agree, I would definitely say so, and we can get them on here.

Speaker 2:

Huh, everyone we've talked to, which actually we're having lunch with all of them today. We're all doing it together.

Speaker 1:

It's been life changing and a journey for, I think, everybody, and how that kind of impact on people's lives I think is rewarding, right. So, yeah, there's been a lot of like all the people we've met nationally, right Like come on, it's like oh. And then we've got like Jessica Moon, who just got licensed. Yeah, it's like who?

Speaker 2:

would have, even ever, you would never have been able to work with them.

Speaker 1:

No, I was like you need to get licensed. You can do this. You'd be a great agent. Come on, just passed her test. Yes, just took some photos. Yes, girl's gonna kill it. Gonna kill it. Talk about changing. 47 years old, just became licensed, right, I know?

Speaker 2:

it's an exciting journey. I'm glad that we did it. Um, I would not change a thing, would not change a thing. This has been an absolute blessing in my family's life and I see the growth potential. I've also heard why eXp right, you missed the mark. We've talked about this a little bit with Brent Gove, but he was in his house in Puerto Rico with no power working off his hotspot, so our audio is a little bit shifty. So I'll kind of repeat a little bit of that conversation.

Speaker 2:

Just being why, why on earth would you choose eXp? All they do is recruit. They've got a bad rap. Go with real. There's a newer one. You know there's more opportunity and I just could not disagree more.

Speaker 2:

I think we are sitting at maybe 6% of the market share, 6% of the market share of agents. That's nothing. There is enough to go around. And I see when we say that we're going to reach what is it? A million agents? I think eXp says I'm like I could see that that seems so crazy. But I could see that because there's a lot of room to grow and the agents that we are now attracting over this last couple of years with the company are high caliber and they're like minded and there's so many of them that have the same value system as us and the people that we're talking to to bring on are also similar. You know we're not like we're not wasting time on the ones that are non-growth oriented, whether financially or personally, and I just think there's a lot of room to grow with the model.

Speaker 2:

And if you are an independent broker or a team lead or a top producer that wants to grow an organization meaning you don't necessarily want to manage agents but you would like to sponsor agents and be available to mentor if needed or take phone calls or Zoom calls, it's a whole different feeling, sponsoring versus managing. It's not as weighty. Let me just say that I no longer have to manage 40 agents. I am sponsoring 40 agents, managing only a small handful. That is what has freed up my time. I'm having amazing conversations with top producers regularly and it's very rewarding.

Speaker 2:

And if I were to have chosen the path of real versus eXp, I would potentially be eliminating substantial income because they do not have the sixth and seventh level and I am not even one year in on this model and I have someone on my sixth level already that I would not get any income from and everyone you look at anyone that's been at the company for a few years the bulk of their income comes from the sixth and seventh level and that is not accessible with real. So for me that was an absolute non-negotiable. Because I do want to grow an organization. I'm not bashful about that. I've had a recruiting cap on for growing my brokerage for years. I love having conversations with agents. It's what brings me energy and I'm sure there's other people out there that might be listening that feel the same way, and I just want to make sure I just hit that nail on the head, because people ask me all the time.

Speaker 1:

I think we need to do a follow up to this episode because we can unpack that to a whole nother conversation, because I think we've talked a lot about. You know your journey and moving independent to cloud based and the reasons why there are so many different people. That would be a good fit for this model, even without wanting to do seven layers deep and grow a sales organization. So it's. It's obviously applicable from your perspective and growing a sales organization in a way where you're it's not weighty but there's also, you know, the top team leads, like a Julie Gergen yeah, an icon level agent that was in our organization prior because she loved the company.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, right. And now she's making way well over 100,000 more a year, and she's not building an organ.

Speaker 1:

No, she's. She's gonna organically bring some people, because that's what happens. That is what happened. You join and you know the agents that you know are like oh, I want to learn more. So I would say, you know, if, as we wrap up here if you're listening because you're an independent broker, but also if you're a team lead or a high producer and you want to know more about those options, huh, like, here's the thing you can be like oh, exp, you know the reputation or whatever. But having your like eyes open and the ability to listen, I think you know just a 15, 30 minute Zoom with us or phone call or whatever, that's just what's going to start like your mind being open to something else, and that's all we've been interested in.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think a common thread of any successful person is that they are curious. Yeah, you have to be curious to succeed and to grow, and I think we could all agree on that. So, fortunately for us, we were curious enough to talk with Dawn and go down that rabbit hole which has ended up changing our life, because if I stayed closed-minded forever, we never would have met any of those people.

Speaker 1:

Man, what a blessing. I know Truly. Like we'd call Brent Gove and be like I mean this guy, when we were in Cabo, had a minister available in his penthouse, like just so that you could like go pray A free session. And we went and like had a free session. Like I don't. I mean, I've been in a lot of companies and not one's been like, hey, go book some time with my pastor. Do you know what I mean? Like if any of you are hurting out there and need somebody, you know like really Well.

Speaker 2:

Even last week with our podcast, we had someone cancel and Brent agreed to go on last minute for us. This guy has 45,000 agents in his organization and one phone call and he's there. You know he has no power in his house and yet he's making it work and we're shifting and pivoting.

Speaker 1:

And it just that alone. I don't know how many that. So I just texted him this morning to get his mailing address. He responded. I'm like thinking like how many texts do you think that guy gets?

Speaker 2:

I don't know, but be curious to see how many handwritten cards he gets, because that's what he's getting from us for coming on that.

Speaker 1:

I like that and I still have a handwritten card that I wrote him last year when we met him wherever, and it's sending my office because I couldn't get a mailing address from Megan. I got everyone's mailing addresses but Brent. So now I'm like, okay, you're going to get a card from last year and this year, but my point is, it's like you totally responded You're all accessible, truly, and different states, different countries. Yeah, inaccessible, truly, and different states, different countries. Yeah, there's not like one person that wouldn't do what they could. So, like calling Matt my financial coach, I was like, hey, who do you know? He's like this guy, like you know. I mean, if they can't help, they will find someone that can. Yeah of a nut.

Speaker 2:

So anyways, we got to wrap up. Wrap up 30 minutes in. If anyone wants to hear more or do a little bit deeper dive, uh, you can reach out to us. Our phone numbers are online. Uh, you can go to find us on instagram all things twists and ask the general and we would be happy to chat, because it's been a game changer for us and we definitely want to help change other people's lives. Give back, give forward Is that a phrase? Did I make that up? Move forward, give back. There you go.

Speaker 1:

And that's a wrap. Happy 30th.

Speaker 2:

All right, booyah See ya. A wrap happy 30th. All right, booyah see ya.